Zha Gandhi is the brains behind South East London-based indie group tall child. Their debut EP – Somehow You Grow – is out this this Thursday, the 17th of July. Not long ago, we sat down with them for a chat. This is what follows…
KG: So firstly, and it seems like the answer might be quite obvious, but I’m going to ask anyway – why “tall child”?
TC: Right, OK. So, for a long time, I went by the name “Zha” – just my name – but I found a lot of people struggled to pronounce it because it’s spelled Zha, so people weren’t sure. I always wanted to find a name that I could use for the band because it wasn’t a solo project anymore. Although I write the songs, we all contribute to the arrangements, the recording, the production, and stuff, so I felt like it was a band project. I was listening to, well, I’m always listening to a lot of Mitski, and she has this one song where she sings “lately I’ve been crying like a tall child” and it just hit me like “I am that tall child!”. I have so many emotions, and I don’t know where to put them – I still feel like a child. So I just felt like that was perfect for the project.
KG: It resonated with you, that lyric.
TC: Yeah, and it’s always really nice when Mitski fans recognise it. They’re like “oh it’s because of that song!” and I’m like “oh you’re a true fan!”, you know?
KG: Yeah, there are a few things like that. One of them is The Futureheads – do you remember them? From the mid-noughties, they take their name from the title of a Flaming Lips album. Again, you’d only know it if you know it. I love those little references. Little Easter eggs. Lovely.
TC: Yeah, it’s quite nice
KG: You mentioned Mitski, and I know she’s someone you’re inspired by, and I’ve seen a few other acts mentioned when reading about you – acts like Radiohead and Arlo Parks – and I can hear those things. Is there anybody else that you feel has been particularly pivotal in shaping your sound?
TC: I think out of the ones you mentioned, Radiohead is a huge one, especially in terms of songwriting. I’ve always been a huge fan of Radiohead. I think they’re immaculate. I guess another influence would be Rachel Chinouriri – she’s a new and up-and-coming British artist. She’s really, really cool. She’s also black and in the indie/alternative world, so I always love seeing that representation. Another black artist I would say is Hannah Jadagu – she’s really cool. Quite a bit of David Bowie as well, actually. I think the style of Arlo Parks’ singing really resonates with me. I think with all my influences, I feel like there’s a specific thing from each that I like. Like, with Radiohead it’s songwriting, with Arlo Parks it’s her voice. With Rachel Chinouriri, it’s her production, I dunno, I feel like I try to mix all those elements together, and that’s what makes a tall child.
KG: Yeah, absolutely, I feel like that’s what makes for an interesting artist in general. I mean, it’s not very interesting to regurgitate things you find interesting, but it’s absolutely interesting to get like a patchwork that comes out and makes for an interesting new product. So I totally get that. I wondered how long you’ve been South London-based? I noticed that you worked with Ghost Car, who I’m a big fan of. Are you still working with them?
TC: Yeah, I am. I’ve been with Ghost Car for just over a year. Their synth player left the band, and they were looking for someone. Maeve, one of the singers and their guitarist, well, I was already kind of in her circles, she knew friends of my friends, and she asked me to join. I was actually so happy because I’d been low-key a fan of them for a while. I played it cool. It’s only recently that I told them, “I was a pretty big fan, guys!” When we started practising the songs – I was learning my parts – and they were like “woah, you’ve picked it up really quickly” and I thought yeah, that’s because I know the songs.
KG: That’s a distinct advantage, I reckon – for any applicant! So I mentioned Ghost Car because I know they’re another London-based act, and I wondered what your experience has been like with your local creative community. I live in South East London, but I don’t do a lot of South East London stuff, I don’t think. But it’s quite clear that there’s always something going on and lots of artistic and creative things happening. It’s been that way for a while now, I think, and I wondered what your time has been like in South East London, specifically around your artistic endeavours?
TC: So I came to South East London when I went to Goldsmith’s Uni in 2016 – so nearly ten years ago. I was at the BRIT school before, which is obviously also based in South London, but I was still living at home in North London, but since moving to South London, I feel like this is my home. It’s because of the people that I met at Uni, especially, that I am in all of the projects that I’m in now and that I have all of the friends that I have now. I just love the community. I think everyone is so supportive and uplifting, and I think everyone is just looking to connect, always. Most of the things I do in South East London are going to small gigs, my friends’ gigs, queer events, and fundraisers – especially at Piehouse co-op, and a lot of my friends work at The Ivy House in Nunhead. The Old Nun’s Head, as well, they do really cool events. So I think just because all the people in my circle are artistic and are based in South East London, we’ve kind of got our little pockets that we operate in. We’re either going to events or running events ourselves. I love the DIY ethic and vibe of that.
KG: It’s funny you should mention The Ivy House. I reviewed a gig there earlier this month – I covered a Start Track artist for this very blog. But I hadn’t heard of The Ivy House before putting my hand up to review the gig. So that’s a strange coincidence.
TC: Which artist was it?
KG: He’s a folk act called Rapt. He’s a one-man outfit, really – Jacob – but he has a revolving cast of musicians who work with him. I’ve only listened to his most recent album – I actually ordered a copy on cassette from Start Track – it’s beautiful, really lovely. I just noticed he was playing in London, and I don’t feel like it’s very often that I can contribute to Start Track in additional ways to what I normally do, so it was nice to be able to nominate myself to do that. It’s something we’re going to be doing more of – gig reviews. I do a lot of release reviews, and I write The Flower Hour monthly blog that accompanies our playlists, but reviewing gigs, I think, is the next step.
TC: Gig reviews are really fun. I feel like that’s something I’ve wanted to get into as well, just because I think the thing I love about music the most is gigs. The live aspect of it. Whether that’s playing or watching, there’s a local newsletter that my friends run called SelOut, and they kind of just get friends to contribute bits about South East gigs and artists, and so I’ve done a couple of gig reviews with them for that. I’m trying to build up a portfolio so that I can start doing that.
KG: I noticed that you are non-binary – I wondered what your journey has been like with that? Obviously, hopefully, the world we live in now is becoming more tolerant and people are more understanding and accepting, but I just wondered what your journey has been like and how it has shaped your art?
TC: I’ve only been out as non-binary about three or four years, and I don’t know, it’s been quite a strange journey. I grew up always knowing that I was queer, in the sense of my sexuality, but my gender, for a long time, I did feel quite attached to my femininity. But I always saw that as a reason why I couldn’t be non-binary. I wasn’t very educated on what it was, and I literally thought that being non-binary meant you had to fit a certain mould. You had to be androgynous. You had to be neither masculine nor feminine at all. But as I came closer to the queer community, I saw so many people who were like me and who identified as non-binary, and I was like “this feels like me”. It kind of gave me the confidence to realise that I am non-binary and I can still feel attached to my femininity, and I can still experience my masculinity too. It’s nothing to do with how you present yourself, it’s how you feel inside – as cheesy as that sounds.
KG: It makes sense…
TC: I’ve always been very comfortable with my femininity, but I’ve always been uncomfortable being perceived as a girl, so I think it’s hard sometimes to separate femininity and womanhood. So, that’s my experience, and yeah, it has affected my art, I think. I realised I hadn’t really written a song about being non-binary, and I wasn’t sure why. I think I struggle to write songs that are really personal to me.
KG: Really?
TC: Yeah, I guess, I mean, it takes a while. The songs on my EP are obviously very personal, but it took me a long time to get to that point. With Stupid Body, I only wrote that last year, and I’ve been disabled my whole life. It took me that long to be able to feel comfortable enough to write a song about it because it feels so important to me that I want to get it right, not for anyone else, but for myself. Whenever I write, I don’t really think about how whatever I’m writing will exist in the bigger world; I write, as most people do, as an outlet for myself, and obviously a lot of that is going to be about my identity and my experiences. It’s only when, sometimes, I write lots of songs about being queer or black or disabled, that I’m like “I don’t want to be seen just as this. I have way more interesting things about me as well”. It’s a constant battle of wanting to be authentic and write and sing about my experiences, but also not wanting to put myself in a box.
KG: Yeah, that sounds like it must be quite a difficult balance. You mentioned earlier that you felt comfortable in your femininity, but that you didn’t feel comfortable necessarily being labeled a girl. Is that because you felt like you were under the impression – or perhaps the impression was thrust upon you – that maybe a girl had to conform to certain expectations and ideas? So who you are now is like your “true self” – you feel like you don’t have to conform to those ideas, and obviously, hopefully, it makes you feel more comfortable as a person, and that translates to your art. It’s interesting that you haven’t documented your feelings or thoughts surrounding that journey. But as you say, it took a long time for you to write about your health, so who knows how long it might take for you to come around to write about that?
TC: I mean, I actually forgot to mention earlier that very recently I did write a song – about a month ago – about my experience as a non-binary person, and it felt very liberating.
KG: I can imagine it would be quite cathartic, especially after three or four years – that’s a long time for something to build up. Not that there aren’t other outlets, like conversation and anything else, but it’s interesting…
TC: Yeah, I think that’s why I rely a lot on my friendships and the connections that I have in my life. A lot of the things I feel like I need to process happen during conversations with my friends, and it’s only then that I feel like I can put it into music.
KG: I guess some things just need to work themselves out? Some things just take time. The next subject I’ve got here is live performances – any favourites that stand out so far? What’s forthcoming? What are your aspirations?
TC: One of my favourite gigs was last year with my friend Kitty Fitz, who is also a South East London-based artist. She’s a really good friend of mine, she does indie pop, and she’s really good. I don’t know what it was about that gig, but it was just amazing. It was The Social, and it was sold out, and the room was just full of all of our friends and family, and it just felt really, really special, being able to support each other. That was one of my favourites. A funny one I did was at London Pride last year. It was “Family Pride” so it wasn’t the official Pride, but I was really excited because it was outside, a huge festival gig. I thought “it’s gonna be so fun!” and obviously representing, being queer – but that day it rained so heavily…and I was like “oh damn it, this could’ve been so good!” But it was still really amazing. All the people that performed before were amazing, and there was a dance group that was incredible, but yeah. It’s funny when you’re given opportunities like that sometimes, and the universe is like “nope”. But it’s fine, as a small independent artist, I’ve played to a room of about three people so many times, and it’s hard, but you get over it, you get used to it, and you’ve got to push through it. Otherwise, there’s just no point.
KG: Yeah, the only way out is through, sometimes.
TC: Yeah. I’ve had a range of different gig experiences, which I’m really grateful for. I feel like it’s given me thick skin. I feel like anything that’s thrown my way – all the equipment can melt in a fire – I’m like “cool, let’s work with this, we’ll go stripped down”…
KG: You can work with it, you’re fine!
TC: Yeah! I can handle it now, it’s fine.
KG: You’ve built resilience! OK, I wanted to ask you about Sad Club Records, which is your home. How did that come about, and are there any contemporaries that you think are particularly notable?
TC: So Sad Club Records is again run by a friend! I feel like most of the opportunities I’ve had are because of my friends, and that’s pretty awesome. It’s so awesome being able to work with all my friends. Sad Club is run by Tallulah Webb, who is honestly the best person ever. I don’t know how she has a full-time job and then runs a record label with so many artists all by herself. She’s incredible. Last year or early this year, I actually reached out to her and was like, “I’ve recorded an EP and I need help, and I would love to be a part of Sad Club because I love what you do”. I put a single out called Damaged a year or so ago, and I found it really difficult. I feel like I’m really good at the creative stuff, but when it comes to marketing and press and stuff, I have no idea what I’m doing, so I needed someone to take that over from me, and Tallulah was like “yes, I’d love to”. But I’d been on the label before, but not with my personal project. I used to be in a band called Buggs, and we were signed to Sad Club, so that’s how I know Tallulah. I’m also in Luce Rushton currently, who is signed to Sad Club as well and who is one of my best friends, so I feel like the people I’ll list off are just my friends, and I’m plugging them!
KG: There’s nothing wrong with that! Friends supporting friends is a beautiful thing!
TC: Kitty Fitz, who I mentioned before – she’s on Sad Club, she’s one of the best indie pop artists. I love her. Her tunes are always stuck in my head. I would also say Ellie Bleach – she’s incredible. She put out a concept album, which I’m a huge fan of. I feel like I want to do some more stuff like that, rather than just write about my own shit! I feel like it would be quite challenging, but in a good way. Celeste Madden is really great. Luce Rushton as well, but I’m in that, so that’s biased!
KG: You can still say that, that’s fine! You mentioned Damaged earlier. I was going to ask you about the big gap between that track and the stuff that came afterwards. Was that just because you were busy doing Ghost Car and things, or what?
TC: I think because it took so much time and energy and work just from me to get it out, that I just needed a break from releasing. And we were new. I only really did it so that when we played gigs, I wanted there to be at least one song that people could go away and listen to. I love playing gigs and the live shows, so I just thought I’d release a song, do loads of shows to hopefully develop a bit of a fanbase, and at the same time, I was writing and recording this EP. I wanted the next project I had out to be a cohesive thing, and from there, I’m planning to do more frequent releases, after the EP, hopefully. I think people seem to connect to my music the best when I perform, so I wanted to use that and build as many connections as I could by doing live shows.
KG: The EP – Somehow You Grow – as you know, I think it’s lovely. Are there any plans for a physical release, or will it be solely digital?
TC: It will be digital for this one. I’m hoping for the next project-whenever and whatever that will be-to be physical, but I think for now I want to focus on the digital release and filming visualisers and things like that. But yeah, I would love to. My goal is to have my music on vinyl.
KG: OK, well, coincidentally, my next question is on goals, ambitions, and plans. What does your ideal trajectory look like? How would you like the tall child project to develop? Where do you see it going?
TC: As I said before, my favourite thing about music is playing shows, so I would love to be able to play bigger shows – like festivals – I’m hoping for that for next summer. I would love to go on tour – as a support, I think, first – that would be really great. I’ve been writing a lot recently, which is quite crazy – I had writer’s block for a while, and I think it’s because the EP took so much out of me that I had nothing left. But as we’ve been releasing stuff, I’ve been getting lots of different ideas, and I’ve been writing, and I’m like “maybe I’ll do an album. Maybe the next thing is an album?” It’s in the trajectory of tall child. Hopefully, it’ll be released on vinyl as well; that would be so epic. I’d love to get more radio play as well. We recently had Stupid Body on BBC Introducing London – that was our first official radio play, which was a really big achievement for me. I think just the usual things that people say. Tour, vinyl, album, I just want to keep creating and just see what happens. I haven’t got a super clear plan in mind, I’m willing to just roll with it.
KG: OK, so this is a weird interview question that I’ve heard lots of times, but I actually think it’s quite interesting. If you could give your younger self – say your 16, 18-year-old self – some advice, what would you say?
TC: I would say stop trying so hard to fit in. It’s OK to be a bit weird. I think I spent so much of my younger self hiding parts of me that I thought were really weird. I don’t even mean in terms of like, my queerness – being in the closet – that obviously was a big part, but I was too scared to even say things in class because I would think “oh if people realise how smart I am they’re gonna think I’m a nerd” or blah blah blah. So I just stayed in the background all the time because I didn’t want to be deemed as something different. Now, since truly being myself and saying what I feel and what I want (obviously with restrictions!) I feel so confident in myself. With my disability as well, for a long time, I tried to hide it. My disability affects my right leg, basically. I have Lymphedema, which is uncontrollable swelling. It was something I tried to hide my whole life with what I wore, and I didn’t tell anyone about it because I was ashamed of being different. It was when I went to Uni – the first year of Uni, so I would’ve been 18 – where I was so tired of having to bail and make silly excuses to not go to things because I was struggling or having a flare-up. I was like, “I can’t live like this forever, I can’t be invisible,” so I just told everyone, and it was the best decision I ever made, to stop hiding. I was so scared people would see me differently. But people were like “you’re Zha, it’s fine. I thought you wore long skirts because that was your fashion, that’s cool”. It’s only been in the last few years, even, that I’ve felt more confident to wear outfits where my legs are out, like if I’m wearing short skirts or shorts. It’s so liberating to be unapologetically me. Sorry, that was a bit of a long one!
KG: No, no, that’s fine. It’s the second time you’ve touched on the notion or the concept of feeling liberated, and I think that can only be a positive thing, so it’s definitely worth reiterating. So, before we go, you mentioned before this that you have an EP launch gig coming up soon?
TC: Yes, the details for it are that it’s on July 30th at the Sebright Arms and tickets are free on Dice!
Artwork by Molly Russon
Interview by Kinda Grizzly
