Joy Joseph is a musician who has been smitten since she was a toddler. Whilst she has played as part of a live band all over the world for huge names such as Mika & Jessie Ware and supported acts like Kanye West, Erykah Badu and Amy Winehouse, she also has her own separate career and pursuits as well.
A born and bred Londoner, she now resides in Brooklyn, New York. In this interview, we cover the differences and similarities between those two iconic cities, we touch on the root of her obsession and those who inspired her most and the people who continue to do so.
We haven’t spoken to Joy for about 10 years, so to catch up a bit was fantastic, but it will be even better to bring her music, creative energy, positivity and productivity to a wider audience.
Black Rainbow Collective: You look the same. How do you look the same?!
Joy Joseph: (Laughs) I sold my soul! I’m joking. (Laughs)
BRC: Are you drinking the blood of young sacrificed children or something?
JJ: Avocados!
BRC: Avocados. Is that the key?
JJ: Yeah. That’s the key. You look the same, too. What are you talking about?! You’ve still got that babyface.
BRC: Well, you know, that’s how it goes sometimes, isn’t it? How are you?
JJ: I’m alright, man, running around as usual. Here, there and everywhere.
BRC: You live in Brooklyn now?
JJ: Mmmhmm, I’m in Bed-Stuy.
BRC: How long have you been there for?
JJ: I’ve been in Bed-Stuy for 4 years, I’ve been Stateside for 8.
BRC: Must feel like home now?
JJ: Yeah, it does. It’s very much like London, so there’s not much difference there.
BRC: I’ve never been to Brooklyn, but I love New York.
JJ: Yeah, New York is definitely similar. They’re similar in terms of who’s living there. Just basically because they’re both quite multicultural, even though it’s kind of segregated area-wise here. Like, different areas have different kinds of cultures. I think Queens is the Borough with the most diverse culture. But in terms of like, Bushwick – Bushwick is mostly Latino, and you come over here to Bed-Stuy and it’s mostly old West Indian – Jamaican, Trinidadian and Haitian vibes. And different areas of Greenpoint have Polish shops, Italian, and so on and so forth. They build a lot of it around their culture.
BRC: It does sound like London. Although London doesn’t feel as separate. I feel like London is much more like, everywhere is mixed. Well, not everywhere – you get certain pockets in certain places, clearly – Golders Green has a big Jewish community, famously, and Brixton is historically very Caribbean, but, yeah, it sounds very similar, conceptually. But yeah, I’ve never made it to Brooklyn. I’ve been to New York 3 or 4 times, and I’ve never been. It’s crazy.
JJ: You’ve got to. It’s completely different here. I never really leave it, to be honest. I kind of don’t really go into the city if I don’t have to.
BRC: If you can avoid it.
JJ: Everything we need is here.
BRC: Well, that’s the way it should be. Everybody has their own little sustainable pockets. So, I found it really hard to find black female creatives to talk to.
JJ: Really?!
BRC: Obviously, they’re out there, obviously, but there definitely seems to be less exposure. Like, I had to work to find them. Obviously I thought about you, and there’s a band called Big Joanie, who are a UK band made up of 3 black women, who I wanted to talk to – one of the ladies in the band, she curates a festival called Decolonise Fest, which is a bit like Afropunk, where its focus is on black creatives in “alternative” spheres. That would’ve been good. I wasn’t able to make contact in time – it’s something I might get round to eventually. And my cousin Marissa, whom I interviewed months ago because they – Marissa uses they/them pronouns – makes music in Auckland, New Zealand, so I had that covered already – but yeah, I found it hard. With men, I seemed to have a queue. A long list of men. And I found it hard. I thought it was important to try to get some kind of additional perspective because, you know, variety is the spice of life and it makes the world go round.
JJ: True that, true that.
BRC: So yeah, I just wanted to chat to you. I know music’s in your blood and has been for a long time. I used to hear your drums through the wall next door, so… (Laughs) You’re synonymous with music to me. I suppose one interesting question would be, where did that come from? Where did it start for you?
JJ: I think it started when I was very, very small. I was into music from a very young age. My Mum was very into music, classical music in particular, and she used to save up money to take me to concerts. We went to the Royal Albert Hall, went and saw Swan Lake – you know, going to the ballet. People thought she was really crazy – this mad black woman with a toddler there – and so I think listening to classical music really did put me in a good headspace to understand music so intricately. I’ve never really had many lessons. I learned trumpet and clarinet. I didn’t really learn guitar – I picked it up – and I didn’t learn drums. I went to try playing in a steel pan band from about the age of 11 – that’s what really kicked it off because then I had access to a drum kit, the congas and my ear just became…it just grew. Like, I just could play. It was really weird, one day, the drummer from the band had got up to go to the toilet, and so I sat down and just played all the repertoire, and they were like “what the hell?” (Laughs) “When did they show her that?” I said “I’ve just been listening!” And I think, actually, learning to set the kit up – the drum kit up – kind of taught me or helped me to figure out how it worked, how everything moved, opened, closed – just put it together. I really loved it, loved learning. We started gigging – the steel pan band – very young, we played all sorts. Highgrove actually, once we played for Prince Charles. And so I was just, like, a gigging musician from about the age of 12.
BRC: Yeah, you started young!
JJ: We were just kind of honing our chops from that young age, and I think, for me, it was always performing arts. My stepdad was like, starting his band, and I jumped in his band, and I just started gigging, I was just gigging the whole time, I never stopped. I was in the right place. Just seemed to always be on the right side, or in the right band – things would just keep creeping up – and I ended up on the club scene, doing that for a little while. Then I was teaching from about the age of 18 – I was always doing music. I just think I never gave up on it. There was a time when I could’ve said, “Aren’t you gonna do something else? Get a proper job? I think you should”. But you know, in between, I was working in theatre, working at Ministry of Sound, there was always music there. It was like underlying music. And then I stopped the clubbing and became ⅕ of Mr Hudson & The Library – and that all took off. We got signed and everything got crazy. And when that all kind of fell apart, I was able to go on to the session. And so that gave me more chops, working session for different people and then having that sound that people wanted – percussion and vocals. So, it’s just been – it’s just been moving and moving and moving. And between that, I’ve helped to do some community work, I always do youth work, as well, because I think it’s really important to give back. And you know, if I didn’t have the people who were invested in me when I was young – I know where I would’ve ended up. Living in that area. There was a lot going on.
BRC: What area was that?
JJ: I grew up in Notting Hill. Westbourne Park/Notting Hill. Or you could say, Westminster. The Borough of Westminster. I grew up on one side, and the other side was like Ladbroke Grove. And so I lived with my Grandmother and my Grandad. Basically, I got to spend time on both sides. So when I got to the other side – Ladbroke Grove – that is when I started to really heavily get into carnival. I was doing the competitions every year – it was kind of religious. It was just like our training, you know? I was playing drums for the band there as well. I took all of that training and used it in my sound and how I set up my percussion.
BRC: You mentioned carnival there, and obviously, I can imagine that being a big influence on what would shape your sound going forward. I think you can hear that. What is your background?
JJ: So my background is my Mum is from Dominica and my Stepfather is from Trinidad, so that’s definitely a very colourful upbringing, in terms of music. My Mum also loves African music as well. She was an Education Officer of African and Caribbean music, as well as putting on shows. So I think all that kind of stuff influenced me as well. I always had knowledge of African artists and other things that were happening. But the carnival was definitely a big part of my sound, in terms of me using a setup that includes a steel pan as well, because that was basically my first love. In terms of my own music – what I use to write – I actually use the pan. That is the staple for me.
BRC: You mentioned the word religious when you were talking about playing in the carnival bands and stuff, and I can certainly imagine it being emphasised to the nth degree, in a way that religion might’ve been. Clearly, you showed an affinity for music, going from one instrument to the next, and then when you found something that was especially Caribbean, I imagine it was like “yep, all in!”
JJ: Yeah, I mean, I was actually in the choir as well, I forgot to mention – I did a lot of singing. Then, when I was in the steel band, I also had the chance to go to this basement where a reggae collective was based. It was on All Saints Road, which was also The Frontline, where The Mangrove was. We would go there and they would play reggae and dub, and I learned how to sing 4-part harmonies. It shaped me and gave me the skills that I have, and I just took them and ran with them. It’s all from the mentors that I had.
BRC: Amazing. It sounds like your journey has been a mixture of obvious natural ability and affinity, but also the encouragement – it sounds like that was really important. The people you met along the way were really important. I was wondering if you could talk a bit more about the youth work that you do because obviously, in theory, you could be that for someone else. It’s a really important thing and we need more of it in the world, so it’s great to hear that you do that. What does that look like for you?
JJ: Currently, I’m not working on any projects, but last year, I did some work in some schools in Queens and Brooklyn doing music production. Particularly 13 to 15 year olds, very basic skills in music production, which was really fun and I actually got to have a go at teaching choir for the first time, which was amazing. We had an age range – the youngest we had was 4.
BRC: Wow!
JJ: 4 to 8. That was amazing because a lot of the kids I was teaching had never seen anything like a guitar. They didn’t know what a microphone was. It was really humbling, actually, just to give them that first experience and to see how happy they were to use these things that they’d never seen before. And to get them singing together and understand how, you know, to get this amazing end product, you need to work together. So it’s about teamwork and understanding melody, understanding how to count and realising that you know, music is maths!
BRC: Yeah, 100%
JJ: There are so many different things you can learn through music.
BRC: Where was this? Where did this take place?
JJ: One was in Queens, and one was just down the road here in Brooklyn.
BRC: What you were saying about never seeing a guitar and not knowing what a microphone was… As a concept to a Westerner, that’s pretty shocking, really.
JJ: Well, it saddened me. Because it just meant that they didn’t have that access, and it made me want to further my education, actually, because I never got a degree or anything like that. I’ve got experience, but I don’t have the paperwork, and I think that to further my career, that would be something that I would love to do. Maybe start a non-profit or something like that. Going into schools that wouldn’t have the advantage of having access to stuff like that. I would love to do that.
BRC: That sounds like a great idea. I work in a school now. So I have exposure to what you’re talking about, not quite at the same level. For example, my colleague and I started this thing where, when the kids are on break, they can come into my office, hang out, play Wordle, have a chat, listen to music, and eat some fruit. We started this “Fruit Club” thing where I have a fruit bowl and my colleague and I fill it with fruit, and if you put it under their nose, they’ll eat it. For themselves, they won’t buy things like that; they’ll buy crap – because that’s what kids want. But you put the fruit there, they’ll eat it. So I guess what I’m trying to say is, giving them access to stuff they wouldn’t normally go for can result in good things, so I really hope that you continue to make that sort of thing happen. It sounds like it would be really valuable. You mentioned some other projects. What else are you working on?
JJ: So basically, I took some time off the road, I went back to school for production because basically I could get away with it a little bit, but I wasn’t really sure what I was doing. So I wanted to concentrate on learning one software, which was Ableton. So I kind of zoned in on that for six months, and I kind of fell into DJing as well. So now I’m just kind of getting my chops up with that to the point where I’m getting booked now. So I’m, like, flipping between percussion/drums and vocals and also DJing as well. I just got offered a job recently doing backline in a club, so I’m trying to do some teaching as well, just to add to my skills. So you know, there’s loads of stuff going on. I’m working with an artist called Nomi Ruiz, you should check her out, she’s amazing – that’s live – so that’s like, full percussion rig and vocals. And I’m like the DJ as well. Did good last night. I went to this reunion and it’s nice to be able to rock up with just one USB, 2 USBs and not have to worry about lugging gear around. (Laughs) D’yu know what I mean? Just you, your USB case, and your headphones. That’s really refreshing for me because obviously, sometimes, when you’re working smaller gigs and on the independent scene and stuff, it’s like grafting, which is fine. I think I prefer working with independent artists, actually, to big tours.
BRC: Well, you’ve done all sorts, haven’t you? For people who don’t know, would you like to give a little overview of your career highlights? Obviously, I know some, but I don’t know all of them. I’m out of the loop now!
JJ: Well, I think that the biggest stuff that I did was working with Mika and that whole Hudson era. Touring with Kanye West and touring with Jay-Z, opening up for Amy Winehouse, was definitely a huge thing for me. There have been a lot of different in and outs, but my very favourite tour – which I have to mention – was Jessie Ware. One of my absolute favourites. Just the level of care and – I wanna say, inclusion. Because sometimes you can work with someone, and you’re just a bot. You know? You’re replaceable.
BRC: A hired gun…
JJ: Basically, yeah! But I went off that feeling. That was another reason why I was like, “I have to hang up my sticks for a little bit” – take some time for myself. Because it can get…you can just get on this hamster wheel of being somebody’s bot. And then I had this audition with this band – I’m not gonna name names – but a very big band, and they didn’t want anything to be real. So I did the audition and it was all electronic percussion and – to keep time – I was just hitting the mic stand with one hand and using the other to actually hit the pads, and they hated that. They didn’t like the fact that I was using something to keep time, and it was organic. And then later on, I found out that everyone in the band had helmets on, so you wouldn’t have seen who they were anyway – you wouldn’t have seen who the band were. So I think I avoided that. Escaped that, shall I say…
BRC: Yeah, dodged a bullet there…
JJ: I think it’s really important to see the heart and soul of the music, which is not just the artist – it’s everybody who makes this happen. I don’t know, I just find it really sketchy when they don’t want to include the people behind them, you know? It’s all about energy.
BRC: I’m just thinking about the helmets. The best band I ever saw in a live setting was The White Stripes. There’s only two of them and they communicate a lot, through, you know, nodding to each other and Jack will put his arm up and Meg will know to react – obviously, not anymore – but I’m just thinking about a band working with helmets on and not being able to communicate in that way and that just feels – kind of like an extension of what you were talking about – it’s inorganic. It’s unnatural.
JJ: Yeah. Well, we saw Daft Punk and that’s what you wanna pull off – that’s their thing. And they probably can communicate through those helmets anyway! (Laughs)
BRC: Yeah, probably, like the Avengers or something.
JJ: Basically. I’m sure they would’ve had that. I wouldn’t be surprised. So yeah, there are certain things that I will avoid now, as somebody who’s maturing. Something that I really love, actually, is working with people my own age. I feel like, for a long time, I just got away with being in bands where they just assume I’m the age of everybody else, but I’m gonna be 50 this year…
BRC: Whaaaaaatt?
JJ: (Laughs) I’m gonna be 50 in December and I’ve just realised that working with people who are closer to my age is good. It feels good that I don’t have to pretend. Also, I’m not picking up people’s pants or telling them off for leaving mess around – being tour Mum! I feel like the work I’m doing at the moment, mixed with the DJing, helps to ground me and keeps my brain ticking. You need so much focus, and I don’t think people get how hard it is. It’s like driving a car. It’s like driving a car and keeping a crowd entertained and happy. You know? And making sure the car doesn’t crash.
BRC: I think in terms of what you’re saying about people not realising… I play the guitar, and my Dad plays the guitar – so I’ve always known guitar playing and my friend Peter used to play the drums, and my Dad would always say the drums are so much harder. On a guitar, you have two limbs to synchronise. On the drums, you have double that. I’m not saying technically it’s twice as hard as guitar, but I get what you’re saying, completely. And with the driving, that level of focus. Applying that to keeping the rhythm, playing the song, keeping time – of course. When you say people don’t realise, I think “how could they not?” but I suppose people maybe just don’t take the time to think about that, but it’s definitely something that was pointed out to me a while ago, and I can appreciate it for what it is. So yeah, big up all the drummers. Have you seen that Producer vs. Drummer YouTube thing?
JJ: No, I haven’t actually.
BRC: Is it YouTube? It might be Instagram, actually. So there’s this lady – her name is Affy Green – so basically she…
JJ: Oh! I think I know who you’re talking about!
BRC: She gets a track, and she listens to it, and she tries to replicate it?
JJ: Yeah, yeah.. I’ve seen her.
BRC: I love it. Obviously, I’m not a drummer at all, but I love the technical dissection of it. I don’t even understand it all, even, but I love how she’s like, “it’s not quite right” or “I have to put that there and this here” I love the way she breaks it down.
JJ: It’s hard.
BRC: Yeah!
JJ: It’s not easy because, especially, when something might have been sped up. For example, a lot of the Drum N Bass – sorry, I should say, Jungle chops – they speed it up and slow stuff down. To play it as a human, it’s nearly impossible to play some of those breaks. And so I’ve seen what she’s done and I’m like “woah”. It would take me months to learn some of the stuff that she’s doing. But I’m a kick/snare/hat girl, so I like just grooving and being in that pocket. I think there’s something very important about that in particular. Not necessarily being a gospel chop drummer, I like being more four-to-the-floor, rigid, down and syncopated. Really cute little polyrhythms and stuff. I’m not really like a strong girl, you know? This is what I want. This is me for me. But you know, you can do a lot with just kick/snare/hat.
BRC: Well when I think about your drumming style, – obviously as I say I’m a little bit out of touch because I haven’t listened to you for a while – but I remember that Black Gold Buffalo album that you made – when I think about the sound on there and the sound on the New Build record – and it sounds, to me, like I can hear the relationship between the percussion on each project. So, honing in on the Black History Month theme, I wanted to ask you who you think are some black artists who you feel are doing particularly impressive or pioneering things at the moment?
JJ: My mentor, Dele Sosimi, has been holding down the Afrobeat world for years — he was part of Fela Kuti’s band and continues to carry that legacy with such grace and power. I’d also mention Blue Lab Beats — they’re one of my favourite electronic bands right now, blending jazz and afro influences in such a fresh, forward-thinking way.
BRC: And who would you say are your all-time musical heroes? Who are your Mount Rushmore of black musicians?
JJ: That’s a tough one, but I’d have to say Nina Simone, Fela Kuti, Tony Allen, Louis Moholo-Moholo, Kassav’ and Marvin Gaye. Each of them has shaped how I feel rhythm, emotion, and truth in music – they’re timeless influences who remind me why I do what I do.
BRC: You took the mick there with the quantity, but I’m gonna let it slide. Obviously, society has come a long way in terms of acceptance and inclusion, but we’re still far from perfect. Do you feel like, as a black artist, that there have been barriers that you personally have come up against? Specific to you? And if so, what needed to happen to overcome them? And do you think there are larger overarching obstacles for us as a whole?
Working in the industry – especially with major labels – was always a challenge. On big tours, I was often the only black person in a large production, and that came with its own weight. There was always an undercurrent of casual racism and gaslighting that I had to navigate. I haven’t been on a large tour like that since, and these days, I’m extremely selective about the artists I choose to work with.
BRC: Understandable. And finally, what’s next for you?
JJ: At the moment, I’m deep into my solo project, spinning as a DJ (under the name KwéyòlKidz), and creating live magic with Nomi Ruiz.
Interview by The Black Rainbow Collective
